VINTAGE AUTO RACING ASSOCIATION

Steve O'Hara · Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 2

I hope this is the appropriate place to post this question. I am wondering how a driver can exit the racing surface while attempting a pass for position, miss turns 12, 13 and 14 and and then return to the track between 14 qnd 15 and resume racing and not get a black flag and be scored as the race winner?

In the Group 3 race this last Sunday, the 23 car was running behind me approaching turn 12 and attempted a desperate down the inside pass that led to him missing turn 12 altogether. Fortuntely, I was able to delay my turn in at 12 long enough to watch him fly by so over his head he made no attempt to make the corner and proceeded across the paved but off course surface and drove back on to the racing surface right in front of me at a very reduced speed. The driver then waived me by and I assumed he would report to the black flag station but I was surprised when he drafted by me at the entrance to 1. Needless to say, I was not about to pass him again and assume the risk of another out of control passing attempt so I followed for the remaining two laps and took the checkered about a second an a half behind.
This was only my second race with VARA and I'm still learning the ropes for the organization but I had been led to believe that VARA would not tolerate that kind of driving. I was told that 4 wheels off the racing surface was cause for an immediate and mandatory visit to the black flag station in pit lane. I must be confused.... Will someone please fill me in on the rules and driver protocol for VARA as it relates to the situation I just described?
Thanks
Steve O'Hara
FA #8

Jerry Bernhiemer

Steve

Pm sent.......

JB

Mark Scott · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: ??

As far as I know, If you attempt a pass that takes you off course (remember, you are given 1 spin or four off per session) and you gain a position by doing it that is a NO NO you could and should be blacked flagged for that. Especially if you re-enter the track in an unsafe manner. But if you give the position back to the car you passed by going off course then you are not deserving of a black falg... Unless of course iy was completely way out of line and a stupid pass attempt . The fact that he drafted passed you going into turn 1 is irrelevant as he most likely would of done that anyway.

I must say, I saw that same pass in a couple of other race groups including mine and the outcome was the same. That spot on the track just asks for that to happen with all that run off there. However, if you put up tires or such, then you are going to have a lot of yellow laps due to debris from people hitting it. It is just one of those corners that you hope the guy behind you uses common cense.

Glad you were able to avoid any contact.
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Mark Scott
#267 Porsche 911 CP-GT

J Wilkins · Joined: 07 Nov 2007 Posts: 54 Location: Glendale, CA.

Pen Pendleton · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject:

Same thing happened to me in the FF race - very young guy in what I think may have been his first auto race weekend (he's also races Karts). He tried to do an astonishingly innapropriate pass on the outside (!) of turn 13. I made the mistake of not seeing him in my mirrors because he had a mechanical problem on the grid and never showed up in my mirrors, so it seemed like he was out. So this was on the 1st lap, which means he was driving that aggressively on what was his warm-up lap (with slicks)!!!

Amazingly, I did not T-bone him, but he had to run straight off into that run-off area, cut the course and just kept going. No black flag.

He was gracious enough to very sincerely apologize after the race, but seemed to me like an example of someone who just didn't understand the difference between "racing"and vintage racing.
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1972 Elden FF
1974 Dallara/Fiat SR

apatkneip · Joined: 07 Nov 2007 Posts: 37

Hi Steve , the rule ( 4 off / report to black flag ) applies to rookies only . The rule for veterans is 2 spins , 2 four offs , or any combination of the two in THE SAME SESSION requires the driver to report to black flag immediately . In your experience the 23 car went four off but is allowed to continue as long as it is his first four off or spin in the session . I hope that answers your question .
Pat Kneip
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pat kneip

Daryl DeArman · Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 59

If it matters any to you Steve, the 23 car is in "SSAX" class and doesn't earn championship points...just an FYI.

I don't know what his license status is/was perhaps John knows if he is a rookie.

Probably a wise move to not attempt the repass on a car not in class, especially if you were likely to be exposed to his passing techniques.

I didn't see it and don't know Lance, but I say Kudos for going straight off instead of trying to be a hero and possibly collecting you. Good sportsmanship to give you the position back immediately as well.

Steve O'Hara · Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 2

Thanks to all who have replied. To be more clear, my post was not intended as a criticism of Lance or the flagmen. Lance was concientious and came to my pit afterward to apologise for the mistake. I am familiar with the written rules regarding 4 off one time etc but I don't think the written rules address the situation I am asking about.
To be more specific... how many corners can a driver miss and not suffer a penalty? And, is it considered acceptable to drive back onto the driving line from off course directly in front of a car running at speed?
Having raced for many years in SCCA Pro catagories I have seen all kinds of reckless driving tolerated in the name of "competition" but my sense was/is that organizations like VARA place safety and sportsmanship ahead of "competiton" on the list of priorities. Miss-judging our braking point is a mistake we all have or will make at some point and it can happen for a number of reasons, mechanical, track conditions, irrational exhuberance etc. How we respond after making the error is a decision.... do we compound the mistake by continuing across the infield and fly back on to the racing surface without regard to the cars that are running full speed on the racing line or do we gather up the car, turn it around and rejoin generally where we left the racing surface when the traffic allows?
In July of 2007 I watched the leader in the FF race over shoot turn three and he gathered up the car and returned to the track where he left when the track was clear.... needless to say it cost him plenty of time and a possible win. Should he have just continued around the oval and rejoined the race where the infield course feeds on to the front straight and then slowed down to wait for the leaders thus putting himself back in the same position he held before the mistake? My example is intentionally extreme to point out the need for some clarity on what VARA expects and requires of its drivers.
Regards,
Steve O'Hara

apatkneip · Joined: 07 Nov 2007 Posts: 37

Steve , safety is certainly our priority in VARA . The situation to which you refer was obviously a mistake by the driver . Since there is nothing in the log book I must presume the error was not observed by a corner worker . Had it been reported by a corner worker appropriate action would have been taken . We do not allow corner cutting or by-passing the turns . We will monitor that area much more closely in the future as it appears there is a problem that needs fixing ( see Mark's posting ) . Thank you for caring and taking the time to point out your concerns as they are also a concern to VARA . We strive to make our events fun and safe for all of our members and your comments are well taken .
Pat Kneip
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pat kneip

Daryl DeArman · Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 59