VINTAGE AUTO RACING ASSOCIATION

BZimmerman · Joined: 20 Nov 2007 Posts: 10 Location: Sedona, AZ

As someone new to VARA racing a Formula Vee I have been somewhat disapointed with class turnout and the cameraderie within the class. Having raced with Corinthian in Texas I have been surprised with the lack of closeness with the FV class at VARA. At Corinthian I immediately felt like family. The FV group pits together and work to help each other with cars and driving. While other VARA FV drivers have all been friendly I don't see the cameraderie and worry that in the long run it will diminish the class. It seems like you are pretty much on your own with VARA. I found a website recently with notes on the Las Vegas VARA race from 2002. They stated they had 16 FVs. The last Vegas race we had 3. One of those three I have just learned has been sold and will be going to Corinthian in Texas. I have spoken with veteran FV drivers at VARA who share my concern with the future of the class. I would rather be 16th in a 16 car field that 1st in a three car field. I enjoy working with and getting to know other drivers. As a competitive ex SCCA racer I am more interested in cameraderie, close racing and helping one another than I am in just winning races. Perhaps I am off base being new to VARA but I would be interested to know how some of the other FV drivers feel and what we can do to grow the class.

apatkneip · Joined: 07 Nov 2007 Posts: 35

Mr . Zimmerman , I really don't know how you can say you are on your own when you are participating at a VARA event . Being an ex FV driver and as President of VARA I must say you missed something somewhere . In all the years I have been associated with VARA and been on the Board of Directors yours is the first mention of a lack of friendship among our members . As a matter of fact we have testimonial after testimonial declaring how helpful and friendly our members are at our events . Perhaps you might consider looking me up at the next VARA event you attend and I will personally introduce you to the FV FAMILY of racers in VARA . You might also take a moment to send a note of introduction to Kim Madrid , our FV Class Representative and a member of our BOD . Feel free to call me if you have any questions - my # is 661 298 1135 .
_________________
pat kneip

BZimmerman · Joined: 20 Nov 2007 Posts: 10 Location: Sedona, AZ

Pat,
I in know way meant to imply that VARA people were unfriendly. I have met kim, Rudy and most of the FV drivers and all have been friendly. What I tried to say and must not have done well was I feel we need to bring the group together, especially at events and try to grow the class. Three FVs at an event seems strange for a group as large as VARA. I have enjoyed my three VARA events greatly and in know way meant to disparage VARA or the class. Thanks for the reply.

Kim Madrid · Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 31 Location: Rancho Cucamonga

Hi Robert,
I do understand where you are coming from. I think that it just came across wrong. At the events that you have attended we (The FV Drivers) have all been very friendly and try to get together as much as we can. In my experience as racing with VARA I have had a terrific experience. I have made some very good friends with the drivers in our group. At the track and not at the track. In my 11 years of racing I love racing in the FV group. Every race I have a blast! Every time I am wrenching on the car before the event, hating life, stressing out and trying to get ready, it ALWAYS seems to be worth it by the time I get to the race and hang out with the group.
As the class rep I am trying to get as many of drivers together and I do try to introduce everyone. This year we will work on trying to pit together.
I hope that I can make the 2008 season better for you and anyone else that may feel this way.
Hopefully you are still planning on running with VARA this season, Rudy is looking forward to driving in your class this year being that he is driving my Zink this season. (It won't be pink anymore). haha Very Happy

I have moved to a new car this season. I have bought a Caldwell D13 and am moving into the FV1 class for this season. I will have to work VERY hard this season racing against Peter, Kenny and Dietmar. Confused

Looking forward to seeing you this season!
If you need to call me feel free to 909 229-4457

Kim Madrid
FV1 291

BZimmerman · Joined: 20 Nov 2007 Posts: 10 Location: Sedona, AZ

Kim,
Yes I may not have done a great job in getting across my point. I speak only from my limited experience with other vintage groups. My only desire was to do whatever I can to promote VARA and the class. It has just seemed to me that there are fewer and fewer FVs running now. I was very surprised that we had only three FV at Vegas. And of course one of those has been sold and is leaving VARA. With so many now running FV1 the FV class seems to be slowly going down hill and that I hate to see happen. Again my only wish was to try and bring everyone together to make the class more enjoyable for everyone. Sorry if I came across as being unhappy with VARA. It just seems that in a state the size of California we should be able to bring more FV to the track than has been the case. Always willing to do whatever I can to promote the class and I just felt more cameraderie might help. Its 1am here and I am off to bed. Thanks for the reply.

Jerry Bernhiemer · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: FV turnout

Bob.......

"""""""""""""As someone new to VARA racing a Formula Vee I have been somewhat disapointed with class turnout """"""""

heres what I found for you.......

Vegas..........5 FV's entered ...4 cars for Sundays race. (Harry Angell couldn't give up smoking). Could the Vee drivers be running out of money this late in the year? Embarassed

BBB at Willow (Nov.) ......11 Vees entered. 10 for Sundays race. Not tooo shabby.
Octoberfest at BuRP......15 entered. I think thats a pretty good field.

"""""""""worry that in the long run it will diminish the class"""""""

Not so. Vees have increased with us.

""""""Three FVs at an event seems strange for a group as large as VARA""""

At the Vegas race there was only 5.....thats a pretty long pull for some of our "economy minded" Vee folks. Dont forget that with $3 + gas and increased expenses to race, and even tho we have VERY reasonable entry fees, that the car counts are down for some races.

I noticed you have answered John's help wanted for the UofV.....see you there.

larry kerner · Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 1

Robert,

Even though I will not be racing this year, I understand where you are coming from. I think one of the reasons we do not pit together at any of the races is because we all have our own friends whom we race with, and some of them are in other race groups. Plus we all came into the organization at different times. No one has made the effort to pit together for these reasons. I think (as an outsider now), it would be a good idea if it was tried one time to see how it would work out. You may want to suggest this to Kim and see if it can be coorinated. (Also remember that each driver arrives at the track at different times). Let me also address the FV attendance at the races last year. Between all the V drivers in our classes(FV, FV1, FV2) there were: March Cal Speedway 10, April Willow Springs 9, May Button Willow 12, July Cal Speedway 16, September Button Willow 14, October Las Vegas 4, November Willow Springs 11. Except for Las Vegas the turn outs were okay. We all want to see more V drivers, and every effort on each drivers behalf would be greatful to bring in more drivers. Hope to see you at the races.

BZimmerman · Joined: 20 Nov 2007 Posts: 10 Location: Sedona, AZ

Thanks to all for the response. Hey if nothing else I got some chatter going on the Open Wheel Forum Once again my only intent was to spark some discussion on growing the class. Jerry I can appreciate your point about $3 gas and the Vegas turnout. The closest Cal track for us from Sedona is a full days drive and you don't want to know the gas bill. Never thought I would see the day that getting to the track would be a major part of the expense of racing.

Kim Madrid · Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 31 Location: Rancho Cucamonga

Larry has some very good points.

Vara does have the largest run groups for the FV class in California. We also have the FV1 & the FV2 groups, but the FV group usually is larger then the others.

California Speedway is the closest and easiest track for me (very close, 20 min) and in the past I have invited ALL the FV, FV1 and FV2 drivers to my house for a Saturday night BBQ. We had a great turn out! It was very nice to see all the drivers off the track as well as on the track. I will try to do this again this season during one of the California Events.

I will keep you posted!
See you at the track.

Kim Madrid
FV1 291

Daryl DeArman · Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 52

Bob,

I think Larry pretty much nailed it. It isn't a lack of desire, more a logistical problem of everyone pitting together.

I believe most of the FV (all sub classes) folks stay at the track, perhaps a pot luck on Saturday nights is the best way to develop cameraderie.

One point others appear to be missing is you seem to be speaking about a lack of turnout in the FV class. Your comment about the "FV1 class growing" lead me there. I am not sure what the solution is.

I do know that a competitive FV should be more expensive than the faster FV1 due to the fact that the FV would be welcome/competitive with more clubs. I also know that the tire bill in FV can be twice that of FV1. It becomes a question of cheaper and faster versus "true vintage".

Do you know of many vintage FV's that are sitting around? Maybe a poll of the FV drivers that only did one or two races would uncover their whys.

BZimmerman · Joined: 20 Nov 2007 Posts: 10 Location: Sedona, AZ

Dayrl,
Any thing I can say of course is based on my limited experience with vintage. One of the things I have found somewhat frustrating with FV is different rules with different groups. I went through school last year with RMVR. They are closer for us but sometime back they all went to running 1300 big bore kits there. I did not want to go that route and even declined to look a car that was for sale there because of the 1300 issue. The rational was that they had to run with FF and it improved their speed somewhat. Not a good move in my opinion. I understand you cannot even buy 1300 jugs anymore. Great people but. Corinthian in Texas has a large Vee group and they are very firm about maintaining FV as FV. They will allow slicks but you pay a point penalty for running them. From my limited experience they racing there is the closest I have been involved with but only raced their once. Most cars close and lots of passing and re-passing etc. Wonderful group and great to race with. Much too far away for us however. The big issue I think, as you mention, is tire costs. With Dunlops getting so expensive slicks are nice. I have run on both. Not sure what the long term answer is. As more cars move to FV1 there will be fewer FV. 1300cc at RMVR, FV1 at VARA or strict FV with Corinthian. Not sure where it is headed but wish it was more uniform for sure.

Louie the great · Joined: 09 Jan 2008 Posts: 4 Location: LaCanada CA

Hi Bob:

I believe we raced with the FVA years ago in SCCA and USAC pro races. I am Lou LeBlanc do you rember me? The Las Vegas turnouts are usually low due to the tow distance. I was very active in VARA the year before running most races as a FV2 car with my 1976 Legrand MK17. VARA is a great group and you couldn't be more wrong with your impression of it but it is a Southern California group you will have to tow here to experience what I enjoyed. I will be active this year running several races with the FV car so call me at 818 952-7211 to compare notes. Please give me your e-mail address and phone no. My e-mail address is LOUATLCF@aol.com.

Lou LeBlanc