check this out...............

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... 031341.ece

HA! Wasn't me, I swear!

Learn from my mistake.....any of you with "push to activate" systems--it takes surprisingly LITTLE pressure to activate a Halon system. Change to a "pull to activate" style. Normal routine getting out of the car and just a tiny little bump with a knee, helmet or whatever and there she goes!!!! No turning it off either It is just loud and unique enough of a sound that everybody within 50 yards will immediately turn your direction to see what the heck just happened!

I see in the latest" Sportscar" a couple thing that I had not considered...
Since AFFF systems are water based, it is entirely possible for the bottles to freeze in colder climates...Freeze and burst open in some extreme cases.
I don't think most of us need worry about that happening around here, but... Forewarned, etc.!

Also on this AFFF system question...I don't see anything about the NUMBER of discharge nozzles each size bottle is capable of sustaining to adequately protect a race car. The only reference to number of nozzles is in the FIA 4 litre system which comes with "six nozzles".
Now, if I am to properly and safely set up a system, it would seem prerequisite to have this very pertinent information. What I have normally done is to use two discharge nozzles on the 2.25 bottles and three on the 3.375 bottles.

I have been considering using a fourth nozzle in the driver's compartment opposite the driver and at the top of the roll cage. This would be primarily for larger sedans and would not impact small cars like my Mini...One nozzle inside the Mini would easily fill the cockpit completely.

Any ideas?

Rod

Rod Davis wrote:Also on this AFFF system question...I don't see anything about the NUMBER of discharge nozzles each size bottle is capable of sustaining to adequately protect a race car.<snip>Any ideas?

You're correct. There isn't an accepted standard, that is why the various manufacturers supply literature with their kit(s) that state how many nozzles may be used. This is also why Jerry stated that those who use AFFF must have the installation instructions for their kit with them at tech. Tech folks need to be able to verify proper installation.

Thanks, Daryl. However, that's pretty much the party line. I was hoping for a little insight into what has been tested, pro or con. The set ups I have installed were derived from conversations with the mfgr.
Even they had no first person experience.

http://www.bimmerworld.com/html/spa-fir ... ystems.htm

My current thinking (always in search of ways to save my ass) is that their is a need for a 'fourth' nozzle opposite the driver and up toward the top of the cockpit. It certainly seems like an intuitive place to put one. My question involves the "time" of discharge and not the volume. Obviously the volume is set by the size of the bottle...but not the time of discharge...I've been in a critical situation at Willow where, after 5 1/2 rolls and ending on my roof, it still took me 30 or 40 seconds to get out...That was with NO fire. I can only imagine "fire" in that scenario!

I don't see a problem with a faster discharge rate so long as the volume is maintained in the critical areas. As you can see from the link, you can even use three nozzles on the 2.25 system. I have one 2.25 bottle in the shop and it looks mighty small next to the 3.375...

Also, I cannot imagine that Wayne or Jerry are not up on the latest engineering and specs on "On Board Fire Systems" or other safety related systems.

Please excuse this off topic question to Jerry, as he is monitoring this thread...

I plan to have the Mini at Annual Tech in January, but we have entered the Lotus Cortina in the Feb University of VARA at BRP. Can we get our annual tech for the Locor there instead of Fontana? It would be more convenient. Also the Locor has an SCCA and HMSA log book but not VARA. Is that a problem?

Rod

Rod, I hear you about wanting more nozzles so that you may place them in more regions.

Party line, or not....I can't see somebody signing off on a system that has more nozzles than the manufacturer says that system can support.

For a given flow rate out of the head, more nozzles will decrease the pressure and flow at each nozzle...if you put 100 nozzles on the bottle each one isn't going to do much unless you also had 100 lines out of the bottle.

If the head is the restrictor in the entire deal, adding more nozzles will not decrease the discharge time. If the nozzles, lines and tees are more restrictive than the head adding nozzles will decrease the discharge time at a given pressure.

""""""""" see in the latest" Sportscar" a couple thing that I had not considered...
Since AFFF systems are water based, it is entirely possible for the bottles to freeze in colder climates...Freeze and burst open in some extreme cases. """""

Right......just like freezing water pipes in houses. Not applicable tho in NON-Pressurized AFFF systems. Still the water can freeze and might do damage. I have heard that some pressurized systems have an anti-freeze chemical added, but I dont know which. If you live in a frrezing climate you have to adjust I would think...just like water in the motor.


""""""You're correct. There isn't an accepted standard, that is why the various manufacturers supply literature with their kit(s) that state how many nozzles may be used."""""""

Yup..........we arent going to second guess the manufacturer. Some times vague instructions but thats the guidelines. Vague possibly because they want to limit their liability?


"""""" Also, I cannot imagine that Wayne or Jerry are not up on the latest engineering and specs on "On Board Fire Systems" or other safety related systems. """"""

Pretty hard to keep track of every make and model of AFFF. Not enough hours in the day to either do research or get all the cars thru Tech. Thats why we ask for literature if something seems suspect. Thingsd to highlight is BOTTLE ORIENTATION IN THE CAR and NUMBER OF NOZZLES.

"""""""""I plan to have the Mini at Annual Tech in January, but we have entered the Lotus Cortina in the Feb University of VARA at BRP. Can we get our annual tech for the Locor there instead of Fontana? It would be more convenient. Also the Locor has an SCCA and HMSA log book but not VARA. Is that a problem?
""""

Well yes and no. You want only ONE logbook per car until that one is filled up and only then should a new log book be issued. The only exception is a log book that goes back many years on a car with history in the 70's say, and you want to keep it "for the era". That can be noted in that log book and saved and a new book can be issued and both will have the proper notation wriutten in. Yes we will do annuals at the UofV on a TIME PERMITTING basis.

My VARA log book is filled up. Can I get another at annual tech?

Author Message
mini14 Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My VARA log book is filled up. Can I get another at annual tech?


Yes........bring your filled up log book.

I have purchased the Fire Bottle FE36 five pound system. After recieving the system and inspecting it I will not buy this brand again. The first concern I found is the head ( push manual) is machined totally improperly for the o-ring seal the system depends upon. Second thier is no provision to allow clocking the head and locking it to a useable position. And the third concern may be only my own, but I am very experienced with cryogenic liquids. The tubing system is alluminum with brass compression fittings and ferrels. This is not my first fire system, but it is the first that I must modify ( beyond most racers abilities ) before I will use it.

I am a proffessional fabricator/ machinest and offer these as my fixes. Because of the legal problems that an opinion presents I only offer my fixes for those that are qualified to evaluate and exicute them. I machined the female threaded portion of the actuator head to the proper dimentions for the o-ring, and shaved the mating face untill the head was clocked to a usefull position for me ( with gauge face up). And the last fix is to repace the compression fittings with JIC ( slang AN).
This system is not as bad as some Chinesse knock off items on the market, but it is NOT top drawer like others.
Please forgive my spelling. Bruce