VINTAGE AUTO RACING ASSOCIATION

anthonyrimicci · Joined: 13 Nov 2007 Posts: 22 Location: Northridge, CA

Seeing updates on this forum from the CS and AS reps make me wonder if there is anything new we BS drives should be aware of? Ireland still the class rep? If not, I'd be very interested in the position.
_________________
Anthony Rimicci
'68 Alfa Romeo GT Jr.

bobwass · Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 16 Location: Sherman Oaks

i think you would be a terrific b/s rep anthony.
i'll second that!

ChrisHorn · Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 23 Location: Pasadena

At last Anthony decides to be part of the solution, as opposed to part of the problem....

I completely endorse this!

cdh
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Chris Horn
'72 Datsun 240Z

bobwass · Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 16 Location: Sherman Oaks

i can't make the willow race next weekend, but will be at button in may.
there was talk last year that all b/s class cars will be weighed at every race.

any update on this?

i think it is a good idea to keep some of the very fibreglassy cars at an honest weight. Twisted Evil

FabrizioRimicci · Joined: 11 Apr 2008 Posts: 3

I am definitely for this. All cars should be weighed without the driver.

bobwass · Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 16 Location: Sherman Oaks

fabrizio-
as i recall, the weight rules for b/s related to the weight of the car with driver and gear and fuel etc. at the end of a race. there was a formula, and 2 liter gtv's had to weigh 2200 lbs. after a race. maybe the old master (JRC) can come out of his alzheimer's fog long enough to corroborate this. wasn't he in his sixties, back in the sixties?
bob

vara rule book:

Minimum Car Weight:

1. In addition to above rules, minimum weight will be enforced for all BS cars.
2. Weight minimum will be with driver, without refueling, following a race or qualifying.
3. Cars may be weighed immediately following any race or qualifying period, prior to returning to the paddock.
4. Minimum weight will be calculated by multiplying nominal displacement in cc’s [i.e. 1600, 1750, 1800 or 2000] by 1.10. i.e. 2000cc x 1.10 = 2200 lb.
5. Cars with rotary engines will be considered to have displacement of twice the working capacity of the chamber.
6. Cars with an overbore of .080” will use the following formula: multiply actual displacement in cc’s by 1.10. Example: .080” over 1800=1855cc x 1.10 = 2041 pounds.

Daryl DeArman · Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 52

Bob,

What you are citing implies that cars that are .060 over and a car with stock bore have the same minimum weight. Correct?

Cars with a bore of .080 over are penalized for the increase in displacement, what about those who go more than .080 over?

Are all cars in BS the same valve configuration? Does a DOHC motor get the same multiplier as a two-valve non-crossflow pushrod motor or is this a non-issue in this class?

Just curious.

bobwass · Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 16 Location: Sherman Oaks

daryl-----

i just copied and posted the b/s weight rules from the vara rulebook on the vara website----

What you are citing implies that cars that are .060 over and a car with stock bore have the same minimum weight. Correct?

looks that way.

Cars with a bore of .080 over are penalized for the increase in displacement, what about those who go more than .080 over?

same penalty multiplier. altho i don't think the vara rules allow more than an .080 overbore, anyhow.

Are all cars in BS the same valve configuration?

no.

Does a DOHC motor get the same multiplier as a two-valve non-crossflow pushrod motor or is this a non-issue in this class?

looks that way again. there were different rules in what was the old defunct bsedan series, but the issues of crossflow v noncrossflow were never enforced as i recall. the vara rules make no distinction in this area.

Just curious.

me too. think the cars will get weighed at button? maybe the b/s class rep can clarify some of this.

bob

FabrizioRimicci · Joined: 11 Apr 2008 Posts: 3

2200 lbs sounds right. This is what the 2 liter Alfas had to weight in the 2.5 Challenge a few years back. I'm for it! Let's make this happen.

anthonyrimicci · Joined: 13 Nov 2007 Posts: 22 Location: Northridge, CA

bobwass · Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 16 Location: Sherman Oaks

daryl et al----

these are the defunct 2.5 challenge weight rules:

they were supposedly taken from the old scca gcr's.
seems needlessly complicated for vara.
where the heck is the 'old master'?
probably baiting anthony on the alfa bbs?

website: http://www.bsedan.com/vsrg.html

1. Cars must meet or exceed the minimum racing weight. Weight of the car is to be as raced with driver but without refueling after a race. Cars may be weighed immediately upon exiting the track.

2. *Weight is calculated as follows for cars over 1300 cc displacement :

Rotary Piston 1.00 lb/cc
Push Rod, Non Crossflow 1.00 lb/cc
Push Rod, Crossflow 1.05 lb/cc
SOHC, Non Crossflow 1.10 lb/cc
SOHC, Crossflow 1.15 lb/cc
DHOC 1.20 lb/cc

Cars under 1301 cc displacement must weight a minimum of
1,000 pounds and follow the guidelines below

Push Rod, Non Crossflow 1.20 lb/cc
Push Rod, Crossflow 1.25 lb/cc
SOHC, Non Crossflow 1.30 lb/cc
SOHC, Crossflow 1.35 lb/cc
DHOC 1.40 lb/cc

3. Alfa Romeo single spark engine 1.10 lb/cc , Alfa Romeo GTA twin spark 1.15 lb/cc.

4. Additional 0.1 lb/cc factor is added to the above for each valve in excess of two per cylinder. Two stroke engines shall be computed on the same basis as pushrod-crossflow engines.

5. Cars with rotary piston engines covered by the NSU-Wankel patents shall be classified on the basis of a piston displacement equivalent of twice the volume determined by the difference between maximum and minimum capacity of the working chamber.

as always,

bob

nb. curiouser and curiouser--- there is a conflict in the vara b/s rules.
the weight formula speaks of an .080 over bore, but the rule book says:

Engine and Drivetrain:

A. Maximum overbore is .060” (per VARA standard).

class rep? anyone? anyone? ferris bueller?

rickclemente · Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 40 Location: Corrales, NM

I really don't like any of this handicapping crap. The cars were originally raced (both in "B Sedan" & TransAm) under SCCA GCRs which reflected the FIA Homologated weight on file for the make and model. Period.
Then Datsun couldn't win, and seeing as they had paid for the privilege, the rules were bent and the DOHC cars (there was only one make with DOHC) were given a weight penalty. The first "formula" didn't do the trick, so the poundage was upped. This was total crap at the time... money talking.
Since we have all relied on the present VARA rules in building and tuning our cars I think we should leave well enough alone. The Homologated weights were "dry" weights and not "curb" weights... this is hard to do quickly at the track... i.e. draining tanks etc.
_________________
Rick Clemente
Old Master
ALFA ROMEO #33 B/S

Jerry Bernhiemer · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:12 am Post subject:

anthonyrimicci Posted

Seeing updates on this forum from the CS and AS reps make me wonder if there is anything new we BS drives should be aware of? Ireland still the class rep? If not, I'd be very interested in the position.

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Anthony....you might talk to Jeff about this....I cant speak for him, but he might have his hands full with CS and would be happy to relinquish BS. The key is a Class Rep has to spend a bit of time at it...

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bobwass Posted:

, but will be at button in may.
there was talk last year that all b/s class cars will be weighed at every race.
any update on this?

----------------

Bob.... It depends who can bring their scales. Jeff or John Wilkins are the usual candidates. This is really labor intensive and its all about volunteering to help with setting up etc etc. I would like to see scales at BuRP but I highly doubt it as they both might be running cars there and there is the extra work by all getting other issues handled at B.eE. that come up...and there is a lot. Now if you were to........

======================

In general....
I am sure that the reference to .080" over is a TYPO. Supp Rules show:

Engine and Drivetrain
A. Maximium .060" overbore.

Firstly, Darlene is undergoing a large task to "arrange" the rulebook in more readible form with an expanded index and better proofreading. This will make easier reading for the entire book including the Supplementals.

Certainly the BS Supps can reuse a tweaking with easier reading, and a better concise and clear format. the starting point should be a BS Committee being formed who polls all the drivers/cars in BS and then reports to a/the Class Rep who then presents the package to the BOD. There are some knowledgable people in the BS Group...you all should get this moving. Very Happy

rickclemente · Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 40 Location: Corrales, NM

Three things:
1) Fabrizio: "I am definitely for this. All cars should be weighed without the driver."
>>Indeed any midget / jockey sized driver would naturally like the cars weighed W/O driver... that would give you a 100lb + advantage over normal people. Shocked

2) Bob Wass: "i think it is a good idea to keep some of the very fibreglassy cars at an honest weight."
>> When we weighed in @ Button last year I was about 11# under & you were about 100# over... I've since added about 10~12 # of blubber... so bring on the scales! (BTW, I don't want to see an anorectic Wass...) I say lose the accusump...
3) If Anthony will step up and do the work, I say YES... By all means be the Class Rep! He is beyond the shadow of doubt the fair and unbiased guy...
let's level the field and go after it! Very Happy

_________________
Rick Clemente
Old Master
ALFA ROMEO #33 B/S

FabrizioRimicci · Joined: 11 Apr 2008 Posts: 3

"Indeed any midget / jockey sized driver would naturally like the cars weighed W/O driver... that would give you a 100lb + advantage over normal people."

hahahaha, Rick that was a good one. I'm flying as is and my car weighs 2050 + me at 155lbs. 2200lb weight rule would put me 5lbs over (maybe 7lbs depending on how much pasta I eat the night before)!!!!

As for Anthony being the class rep, I think this is a great idea. It would be nice having a B sedan participant as class rep and I know most of us think he can be a fair person. He was an a**hole sometimes growing up though.